This describes my son and our family exactly. I'm wondering if any family out there has successfully supported these smart, sensitive, and awkward boys through the tough teenage years. The quote that really speaks to me is this, "We suspect that social anxiety and isolation lie at the root of gender dysphoria for many of these boys. High-IQ, autistic, ADHD boys are all social outcasts. Puberty further highlights their differences. We suspect that gender dysphoria and a trans identification may be unhealthy attempts to find a community." I'm wondering how best to support my boy through this.
Thank you for posting this! Just starting down the deep dive and kicking myself for not doing it earlier. Just so many issues for me. Where can I find the group for ROGD males?
"42% of the boys have had period of desistance that last at least 2 weeks, and 7% are presently desisting for 6 or more months. " What do you mean by a period of desistance that lasts at least 2 weeks? Does this mean that 42% of boys had a period of at least 2 weeks where they didn't identify as transgender, but then came back to identifying as transgender? Or did they have a period where their GD was low / gone but then came back? How was this assessed by the parent? Thank you.
As a teacher & leader for decades of successful provisions for young adults with pronounced special educational needs, my belief is that worse than 'born in the wrong body', the gender ideology that 'everyone must have a gender identity distinct from knowledge about their sex' by itself is highly harmful, particularly for autistic children.
It creates an implied task to work out what one's is. There is nothing to go on other than the usual hierarchy of gendered stereotypes, even though some claim these are not involved (there really is nothing else).
Not being comfortable in the standard social gender roles, common in children & very common in autistic children, is one reason, given this unconscious/conscious induced by ideology task, for a hypothesis to be created of *my gender identity* being something different from *matching my sex/GAAB*, whatever than means.
Then it can become an intense interest, especially common in autistic ppl.
The other main source of harm is the so-called *affirmative model* described above, which can seem to reduce stress in younger children for example as switching names & clothes & facilities to effectively simulate a change of sex is relatively easy so ppl can pat themselves on the back. However this over-literal interpretation, again which autistic children are more vulnerable to, solidifies personality into an apparent sex change which then turns puberty into a looming brick wall ahead.
So we need to eradicate the professional & social acceptance of the 'you have a gender identity' doctrine as well as remove the over-literal simulated-change-of-sex so-called affirmative model.
Useful and important article. However, please stop speaking as if there are other children....such as those who are taught that people can be born in the wrong body, and who declare themselves to be the opposite sex early on...for whom affirmation is hunky dory science-based "treatment." What's happening to ROGD children is horrible. What's happening to other medically-assaulted children is equally horrible.
Dr Warren Farrell, has written a book called The Boy Crisis. He is on a recent edition of the Triggernometry podcast. It may be that the specifics of the ROGD problem has to be set within a wider range of issues facing boys and men.
Following on from all the posts and replies, I think part of the problem is that there is less cachet for geeky guys. The UK used to have more acceptance of guys who were clever but not good looking. A lot of our film stars in the 1960s and 70s were awkward, geeky and or what was then called, somewhat unkindly, wimpy. I think of Michael Crawford as Frank Spencer. Peter Sellers. The list goes on and on. We had less of a beauty standard for men than in America That has now changed. Now it is all abs and sparkling teeth. These RODG boys need to be shown a route to success, personal and professional They are not a girl just because they are not a hunk/jock. Plus they need to get comfortable with their bodies which is where physical activity away from a laptop can help.
Same in the UK. The boys need male role models. They need to be told they are fine as they are. Their time online needs to be restricted and supervised. More value needs to be placed on non academic pursuits. They need to get out and do things like art, music, drama, horse riding, learning a craft, yoga, whatever. Things that are not academic. They need that balance as a destressor. They need to learn emotional resilience and to be told it’s fine to be distressed if a loved one has died. All easier said than done. Having been loosely associated with Our Duty for a year, the strategies that parents can work with are emerging from your experiences.
Not an expert on this topic, but the rise of psychotherapies that are focused on symptom-relief, to the marginalization of the relationship or transference between patient and therapist may be one of the reasons these parents have had bad experiences with therapists.
Wonderful post. What a lot of work went into these surveys - is someone in your group a researcher who may be able to translate this work into a feasible study?
Results also seems to be follow what's happening with ROGD girls who want to be boys: high intelligence, ADHD, socially isolated (exacerbated by the pandemic), peers -- many of them online -- who validate and lift up this behavior.
But if parents believe hormones help it is absolutely ethical to compare a cohort with exploratory therapy to one with hormones. No one knows which works. Randomly selected. Neither group is not getting what is shown to be care.
I think it's unethical because the hormones are dynamite in their growing bodies, though.
A very interesting and thought provoking article. As a retired teacher I am struck by the connections between high I.Q., social awkwardness and isolation and sudden onset feelings of being trans. Being smart shouldn't be a disadvantage, but given the superficiality and empty competitiveness of current socialization games, its easy to see how normal teen society might have nothing to offer these boys. It's disturbing to imagine how little we have to offer our brightest in general......but that smart boys might suddenly imagine they might actually be women could also reflect on current gender roles and expectations. As a bright female, I've experienced a lifetime of being sidelined by alpha males; I've never for a moment envied their so called privileges. So I have to wonder....what might change if we ditched 90% of our gender roles and focused instead on what it means to be human?
I feel for everyone dealing with these issues. I doubt affirming therapies that imagine we can choose our bodies through surgery and drugs has any real future....little we've done to 'improve on nature' is working out as well as the technocrats imagined. The many ways in which we are failing our children is one more proof of that.
This describes my son and our family exactly. I'm wondering if any family out there has successfully supported these smart, sensitive, and awkward boys through the tough teenage years. The quote that really speaks to me is this, "We suspect that social anxiety and isolation lie at the root of gender dysphoria for many of these boys. High-IQ, autistic, ADHD boys are all social outcasts. Puberty further highlights their differences. We suspect that gender dysphoria and a trans identification may be unhealthy attempts to find a community." I'm wondering how best to support my boy through this.
This is my boy exactly. Unfortunately he started hormones as soon as he turned 18 without out knowledge and has now been on 2 years.
Thank you for posting this! Just starting down the deep dive and kicking myself for not doing it earlier. Just so many issues for me. Where can I find the group for ROGD males?
"42% of the boys have had period of desistance that last at least 2 weeks, and 7% are presently desisting for 6 or more months. " What do you mean by a period of desistance that lasts at least 2 weeks? Does this mean that 42% of boys had a period of at least 2 weeks where they didn't identify as transgender, but then came back to identifying as transgender? Or did they have a period where their GD was low / gone but then came back? How was this assessed by the parent? Thank you.
This is excellent!!! Thank you for conducting this study and the fantastic write-up.
As a teacher & leader for decades of successful provisions for young adults with pronounced special educational needs, my belief is that worse than 'born in the wrong body', the gender ideology that 'everyone must have a gender identity distinct from knowledge about their sex' by itself is highly harmful, particularly for autistic children.
It creates an implied task to work out what one's is. There is nothing to go on other than the usual hierarchy of gendered stereotypes, even though some claim these are not involved (there really is nothing else).
Not being comfortable in the standard social gender roles, common in children & very common in autistic children, is one reason, given this unconscious/conscious induced by ideology task, for a hypothesis to be created of *my gender identity* being something different from *matching my sex/GAAB*, whatever than means.
Then it can become an intense interest, especially common in autistic ppl.
The other main source of harm is the so-called *affirmative model* described above, which can seem to reduce stress in younger children for example as switching names & clothes & facilities to effectively simulate a change of sex is relatively easy so ppl can pat themselves on the back. However this over-literal interpretation, again which autistic children are more vulnerable to, solidifies personality into an apparent sex change which then turns puberty into a looming brick wall ahead.
So we need to eradicate the professional & social acceptance of the 'you have a gender identity' doctrine as well as remove the over-literal simulated-change-of-sex so-called affirmative model.
Useful and important article. However, please stop speaking as if there are other children....such as those who are taught that people can be born in the wrong body, and who declare themselves to be the opposite sex early on...for whom affirmation is hunky dory science-based "treatment." What's happening to ROGD children is horrible. What's happening to other medically-assaulted children is equally horrible.
Dr Warren Farrell, has written a book called The Boy Crisis. He is on a recent edition of the Triggernometry podcast. It may be that the specifics of the ROGD problem has to be set within a wider range of issues facing boys and men.
Following on from all the posts and replies, I think part of the problem is that there is less cachet for geeky guys. The UK used to have more acceptance of guys who were clever but not good looking. A lot of our film stars in the 1960s and 70s were awkward, geeky and or what was then called, somewhat unkindly, wimpy. I think of Michael Crawford as Frank Spencer. Peter Sellers. The list goes on and on. We had less of a beauty standard for men than in America That has now changed. Now it is all abs and sparkling teeth. These RODG boys need to be shown a route to success, personal and professional They are not a girl just because they are not a hunk/jock. Plus they need to get comfortable with their bodies which is where physical activity away from a laptop can help.
Same in the UK. The boys need male role models. They need to be told they are fine as they are. Their time online needs to be restricted and supervised. More value needs to be placed on non academic pursuits. They need to get out and do things like art, music, drama, horse riding, learning a craft, yoga, whatever. Things that are not academic. They need that balance as a destressor. They need to learn emotional resilience and to be told it’s fine to be distressed if a loved one has died. All easier said than done. Having been loosely associated with Our Duty for a year, the strategies that parents can work with are emerging from your experiences.
Not an expert on this topic, but the rise of psychotherapies that are focused on symptom-relief, to the marginalization of the relationship or transference between patient and therapist may be one of the reasons these parents have had bad experiences with therapists.
Wonderful post. What a lot of work went into these surveys - is someone in your group a researcher who may be able to translate this work into a feasible study?
Results also seems to be follow what's happening with ROGD girls who want to be boys: high intelligence, ADHD, socially isolated (exacerbated by the pandemic), peers -- many of them online -- who validate and lift up this behavior.
This is wonderful,thank you!
But if parents believe hormones help it is absolutely ethical to compare a cohort with exploratory therapy to one with hormones. No one knows which works. Randomly selected. Neither group is not getting what is shown to be care.
I think it's unethical because the hormones are dynamite in their growing bodies, though.
A very interesting and thought provoking article. As a retired teacher I am struck by the connections between high I.Q., social awkwardness and isolation and sudden onset feelings of being trans. Being smart shouldn't be a disadvantage, but given the superficiality and empty competitiveness of current socialization games, its easy to see how normal teen society might have nothing to offer these boys. It's disturbing to imagine how little we have to offer our brightest in general......but that smart boys might suddenly imagine they might actually be women could also reflect on current gender roles and expectations. As a bright female, I've experienced a lifetime of being sidelined by alpha males; I've never for a moment envied their so called privileges. So I have to wonder....what might change if we ditched 90% of our gender roles and focused instead on what it means to be human?
I feel for everyone dealing with these issues. I doubt affirming therapies that imagine we can choose our bodies through surgery and drugs has any real future....little we've done to 'improve on nature' is working out as well as the technocrats imagined. The many ways in which we are failing our children is one more proof of that.